"Many of our people do not need to be sanctified—they need to be saved! The doctrine at risk in many holiness churches is not entire sanctification but "transformational conversion." We may need to stand at Luther's side awhile before we can rejoin Wesley."
In my half century in the Wesleyan Church, I remember only one testimony of entire sanctification, delivered by Virgil Mitchell on a Sunday night in First Wesleyan Church, Central, SC, when I was a very young adult. He so calmly expressed that he no longer had any desire to sin and gave all glory to God that he couldn't remember the last time that he had not been at complete peace with the Lord. We didn't have to long "from sin and self to cease" but that such was achievable through the Spirit.
When I bring up the idea of entire sanctification to others -- to Wesleyans -- the idea that we can ever completely lose the desire to sin is shot down.
But Dr. Mitchell lived in such a way that I believe the Lord did that miraculous work in him. And I still believe it's available to us as well. After all, if God has called us to be holy as He is holy and desires for us to live in His good, pleasing, and perfect (complete) will, then why are we not telling more people that holiness will lead to the amazing peace those Saints exemplified for us?
Excellent article for reflection. Not sure why, but this line hit as strongly as any -- "We may need to stand at Luther's side awhile before we can rejoin Wesley."
I always appreciated your dad's emphasis on both progressive and entire sanctification. I remember him emphasizing discernment -- to discern and pay attention to the leadings and promptings of the Holy Spirit. I don't hear that talked about much these days.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'll be chewing on this one for awhile.
When my thesis advisor delayed my defense and made me study Luther for another year before revisions I appreciated this line a LOT less but I concede your point ;-)
David, I love this message. I clearly remember the day I surrendered my “rights” to God and asked Him to enter my heart in the fullness of the Holy Spirit. I have not lived a perfect life and have had to ask His forgiveness for many things I will not elaborate here.
Thank you for posting this. I have published my memoir on Amazon. It is called “A Journey To Grace” by Susan L James. I have had to overcome many issues in my life, and the Holy Spirit has been my Comforter, Teacher and Guide.
What is your assessment of where Wesleyan holiness churches are now? Do you think there is a holiness movement, a healthy, non legalistic, Jesus and Holy Spirit centered movement. I was raised in an AMH church. I sought ES as early as age 13 but have struggled with the experience and relationship a great deal. People like your Father (and others) were convincing evidence of the reality of the call to and realization of a life lived in the power of the Spirit. But, and I have already gone on too long, I have had many personal struggles. I’m encouraged by the Asbury Outpouring, the preaching of Steve DeNeff, and even the “back to Wesley” movement of the last several decades. But in the churches (I speak as a semi-retired pastor) sin is ignored, downplayed and the people who are calling for a return to the glory days of the AMH movement are (in my view) prone to legalism and a separatist mindset. Anyway, my two cents, and forgive me for the length.
Thanks for offering this. I've been thinking about doing a kind of 30 years looking back retrospective but I think two efforts are already doing that: 1) The "Our Holiness Heritage" effort by Dan Leroy is basically doing this kind of extensive work looking back now 30 years+ since this address, and I know and respect Dan a ton. He and my father were close and Dan was part of the Cadre. That can be found at this link:
2) A Loyal Disruption publication is in some ways an attempt to recapture elements of movement. I've commented on that in my writings, and how hard that can be... but I trust those involved in that effort:
What concerns me is that we love to talk about reigniting the movement, but the vast majority of that talk centers around doing more of the same things your dad cited as contributing factors to its death.
So refreshing to read this again.
Dropped a link to your work in a reply above
"Many of our people do not need to be sanctified—they need to be saved! The doctrine at risk in many holiness churches is not entire sanctification but "transformational conversion." We may need to stand at Luther's side awhile before we can rejoin Wesley."
In my half century in the Wesleyan Church, I remember only one testimony of entire sanctification, delivered by Virgil Mitchell on a Sunday night in First Wesleyan Church, Central, SC, when I was a very young adult. He so calmly expressed that he no longer had any desire to sin and gave all glory to God that he couldn't remember the last time that he had not been at complete peace with the Lord. We didn't have to long "from sin and self to cease" but that such was achievable through the Spirit.
When I bring up the idea of entire sanctification to others -- to Wesleyans -- the idea that we can ever completely lose the desire to sin is shot down.
But Dr. Mitchell lived in such a way that I believe the Lord did that miraculous work in him. And I still believe it's available to us as well. After all, if God has called us to be holy as He is holy and desires for us to live in His good, pleasing, and perfect (complete) will, then why are we not telling more people that holiness will lead to the amazing peace those Saints exemplified for us?
Thanks for sharing this story!
Excellent article for reflection. Not sure why, but this line hit as strongly as any -- "We may need to stand at Luther's side awhile before we can rejoin Wesley."
I always appreciated your dad's emphasis on both progressive and entire sanctification. I remember him emphasizing discernment -- to discern and pay attention to the leadings and promptings of the Holy Spirit. I don't hear that talked about much these days.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'll be chewing on this one for awhile.
When my thesis advisor delayed my defense and made me study Luther for another year before revisions I appreciated this line a LOT less but I concede your point ;-)
David, I love this message. I clearly remember the day I surrendered my “rights” to God and asked Him to enter my heart in the fullness of the Holy Spirit. I have not lived a perfect life and have had to ask His forgiveness for many things I will not elaborate here.
Thank you for posting this. I have published my memoir on Amazon. It is called “A Journey To Grace” by Susan L James. I have had to overcome many issues in my life, and the Holy Spirit has been my Comforter, Teacher and Guide.
Thanks so much for sharing this--and not only your testimony here but also in your memoir.
What is your assessment of where Wesleyan holiness churches are now? Do you think there is a holiness movement, a healthy, non legalistic, Jesus and Holy Spirit centered movement. I was raised in an AMH church. I sought ES as early as age 13 but have struggled with the experience and relationship a great deal. People like your Father (and others) were convincing evidence of the reality of the call to and realization of a life lived in the power of the Spirit. But, and I have already gone on too long, I have had many personal struggles. I’m encouraged by the Asbury Outpouring, the preaching of Steve DeNeff, and even the “back to Wesley” movement of the last several decades. But in the churches (I speak as a semi-retired pastor) sin is ignored, downplayed and the people who are calling for a return to the glory days of the AMH movement are (in my view) prone to legalism and a separatist mindset. Anyway, my two cents, and forgive me for the length.
Thanks for offering this. I've been thinking about doing a kind of 30 years looking back retrospective but I think two efforts are already doing that: 1) The "Our Holiness Heritage" effort by Dan Leroy is basically doing this kind of extensive work looking back now 30 years+ since this address, and I know and respect Dan a ton. He and my father were close and Dan was part of the Cadre. That can be found at this link:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/146397487424113
2) A Loyal Disruption publication is in some ways an attempt to recapture elements of movement. I've commented on that in my writings, and how hard that can be... but I trust those involved in that effort:
https://aloyaldisruption.substack.com/
Thank you.
Here we are, thirty years later, and his words are even more true!!!
Yes very prescient
What concerns me is that we love to talk about reigniting the movement, but the vast majority of that talk centers around doing more of the same things your dad cited as contributing factors to its death.
good insight
Fair enough. HAHA!