The Second Chair? When You’re Interested in Being or Hiring the Number Two Leader in an Organization
Part 1: How to discern, prepare for, or hire a Vice President, Director of Operations, Executive Pastor, Chief of Staff, etc.
We hear a lot about the first chair in organizations. The top dog. The big kahuna. The CEO, the President, the Senior Whomever. The buck stops with them, so we’re told.
Most leadership training and advice is aimed at that point person, either intentionally or unintentionally. But what about those who serve in the seat right next to the first seat? Those who occupy the second chair or one of several second chairs, what about them?
Because of my 20+ years in second chair roles, and more than a decade of executive coaching with both first and second chair leaders, I get a lot of questions about this dynamic. I hear from people who are generally curious about what it means to be a second chair leader. They go by many titles: Director of Operations, Vice President, Executive Pastor (XP), Managing Partner, Chief of Staff (COS) or other kinds of second chair leaders (SCL).* Some are actively looking to step into such a role for the first time. Others in the first chair are wondering how to hire someone as second chair in their church or organization, or are discerning if it’s time to hire.
We intuitively know these roles are critically important. When an organization is in disarray, we often correctly assume the first chair simply needs the right second chair. But what does it look like to seek someone for that role or to step into it yourself?
First, Think Intentionally About the Role
The second chair is one of the hardest roles to define. A Director of Operations in one org can have a radically different role as someone with the same title in another org. An XP can have dramatically different responsibilities on different church staffs, whereas something like “Comptroller” or “Student Ministries Pastor” or “Human Resources Director” usually has at least some consistency. The same goes for Chiefs of Staff or Executive Vice President compared to the CFO or Chief Development Officer in other organizations.
The Harvard Business Review notes that the COS role is often misunderstood, largely because it’s so versatile. In one of their articles, they outline seven kinds of Chiefs of Staff:
The executor, who just gets stuff done
The change agent, leading a major strategic shift
The mentor, offering experience to a young CEO
The other half, complementing the CEO’s style and gaps
The partner, who essentially co-leads
The heir apparent, the presumed next CEO
The MVP, promoted to retain top talent and expand influence
I’ve seen each of these categories play out in XP, Director of Operations, and other second chair roles along the way. David Fletcher has also done excellent work identifying types of executive pastors, the broad areas they serve in, and the sometimes humorous history of second chair roles in churches.
A second chair leader I know named Chris, who served in San Diego, once told me: “The XP’s function in those roles may change. I’ve personally been in three of those categories. Not all at once, but shifting as the senior pastor changes direction.” This can shift quickly when there’s a change at the top. For a season as a second chair leader, I was tasked to be more of a “change agent” and “partner.” But when the top leader changed and I stayed on for the transition, I had to become “the other half” and “executor” for that season.
It’s worth noting: a second chair leader should not just be the lead pastor’s old law school or seminary buddy. And the COS shouldn’t be your college roommate or the maid of honor in your wedding. Sure, you may have these connections with them, but it should be built on way more than that. The main qualification is not how many inside jokes you share, although I’ll admit that can be a nice bonus.
Next, Build Relationships With Other Second Chair Leaders
If you don’t yet know any executive pastors personally, get to know a few. That’s good advice whether you’re looking to hire for the role or step into it yourself.
If you're trying to hire, nobody will give you better insight than someone already doing the job. Find one who’s not looking to move, and pick her brain about what to look for in someone like her.
If you're exploring the role for yourself, start asking for coffee or videoconference meetings to learn. Years ago, when I was a part of a large staff but not in the official second chair, I began reaching out to second chair leaders I admired. Four years later, when I formally stepped into the title, I had already learned from many of them instead of starting from square one.
Eventually, I broadened my view to include second chair leaders in other domains and fields of work. Some of my best peer-learning relationships came from them. One guy named Dan was one of the first to give me a good deal of his time, and to be honest, perhaps half or more of what I know about the role comes either directly from Dan or from someone he introduced me to.
Over time, you may find an informal roundtable of second chair leaders. This is how most of us in the role learn. There’s no school for it, and we come from wildly different backgrounds. Second chair leaders are sneaky that way. In most careers, relationships make up more than half the learning. But for second chair leaders, it’s more like 90 to 95%. The rest comes from screwing it up for a few years and finally figuring out a better way.
That’s a good start, but not the full picture. I should share more on this subject, so on Friday of this week I plan to dig into this topic even deeper, so stay tuned.
What is your experience or thinking on the subject of second chair leaders? Leave a comment and let me know.
The Second Chair? Resources and Readiness for the Number Two Role
In my last article about second chair leadership I first encouraged us toward thinking intentionally about the role and next about building relationships with other second chair leaders. I have three more initial steps to take when getting ready for this role in the future or getting ready to hire someone for it. Let’s launch into those three in turn:
When I first stepped into ministry, I believed this was the lane I was meant to run in. Mentors, professors, even denominational leaders affirmed it—telling me I was a natural fit for a second-chair role, more so than church planting or senior leadership. They saw my strengths clearly... or so I thought.
But the reality has looked very different.
Time and again, I’ve found myself placed in assistant or support roles—not because I lacked capacity, but because those roles were “stepping stones” to something greater. Or so they said. The promise was always, “We see leadership in you—this is just the beginning.” But years later, that “beginning” has never progressed.
The result? A resume that doesn’t carry the titles some expect. A portfolio full of real work, real leadership, and real fruit—hidden behind the wrong job descriptions. I’ve started to wonder what’s actually being said when the encouragement to "wait" never turns into opportunity. What are the unspoken barriers?
So here's the hard questions I’m wrestling with:
What do you do when the paper trail doesn’t lead to the second chair?
How do you prove you’re already operating at that level—without the title to match?
And is it possible that the gatekeepers don’t recognize the second chair when it doesn’t look like them?